The Trap of Validation. The Pursuit of Mastery | Bill Stephney & Lawrence Yeo JUST PRESS RECORD

Lawrence Yeo once committed 100 hours to write a single story. He just wanted to know what would happen if he put that much time and effort into something. No expectation, just curiosity.

Bill Stephney, after introducing Chuck D to Rick Rubin (and Hank Shocklee along the way but, don’t let me rabbithole you too on this story), helped manage Def Jam way back at the beginning of the label, where he learned to ask up and comers if they wanted recognition, money, or celebrity status - because they’d have to focus on one of the three. He learned not to have an expectation too, and he let the curiosity guide him.

Which - the external validation, as tempting as it is, of knowing your 100 hour project will succeed or basking in the glory of your status, wealth and fame, always (ALWAYS) succumbs to the internal reality of - did you get what you really wanted?

In Lawrence’s case, it eventually led him away from a career in music, a career on Wall Street, and into a career in writing (first book, “The Inner Compass” out now).

In Bill’s case, it eventually expanded from a career in music, to the business of music in movies, documentaries, and even high education.

The overlap is that the external validation ultimately means nothing, even if it’s where we want to focus. It really is a trap. And these two have both figured out how to stay out of it.

Lawrence made a great go at letting his finance career pay for his beat-making passion. But what kept popping up was how being a producer wasn’t just about making music, it was all about promoting and distributing what you’d made.

Making vs selling - those are totally different jobs.

Lawrence wanted what Bill described. He wanted all of it. The recognition from peers, the money from sales, and the celebrity status. He wanted his art to do that. To make life easier and fulfilling. But the chase to get it, it was destroying him from the inside out.

Bill saw it over and over as he ran the business side of the house for a handful of successful artists as they worked with his companies, but also for a countless number of unsuccessful artists who just didn’t “make it.” He witnessed the external validation trap catch victims, over and over.

Eventually, both Lawrence and Bill saw the answer. Even if it sucked to admit it. Even if it felt like a serious tradeoff in real time.

Lawrence told Bill and I about his “cringe test.” He said if you don’t feel embarrassed by your old work, whatever type of work it may be, then you’re not growing. Growth means you look back and cringe and that’s hard to stomach on lots of levels.

Bill added to what the best work feels like in real time. How when you’re making it, and not cringing at all, you never know its significance either. I mean, this is the guy who was there with Run-DMC, and Chuck D meeting the Bomb Squad, and the Beastie Boys coming out of Rick Rubin’s dorm room, and he didn’t see THAT as historical in the moment.

Assuming you’ve already accepted you can’t tell either, you can move on to what Lawrence and Bill both figured out - the faster you realize the internal compulsion, the internal drive towards curiosity, or, as Lawrence put it, the realization that curiosity is gratitude for the unknown, the faster you can experience flourishing.

You have to balance your internal drive with your external success. Yes, a compass helps (thanks Lawrence). And also, saying yes to unknown opportunities while staying true to your creative instincts is what will get you through (thanks Bill). That’s how you take giant baby steps and keep your left foot in front of your right.

Line your internal compass up. Let go of the external validation. If you approach it with a heartful of gratitude, as Bill and Lawrence both learned to, recognition, money, and/or celebrity are in reach, if that’s even what you want.

This is a downright magical conversation. Not just for all the history lessons and cool stories, but because this is a realistic creative conversation. Calling all creators: I’ve got so much truthful on my mind - refuse to lose…"

ps. Extra shoutout to prior Just Press Record guest, Greg Larkin (and the whole Punks in Pinstripes community), for helping make this episode happen. This is what networks do. Everything is cooler with cool friends.